The Secret to Seamless Returns With Amena Ali From Optoro - Ep. 52
In This Episode
Many businesses have perfected their outbound logistics. Products are picked, packed, and shipped with near-perfect accuracy, and customers are delighted. But some merchants haven’t put enough thought into the question posed by Amena Ali, CEO of Optoro: “What happens when all this stuff comes back?”
In this episode of Unboxing Logistics, Amena and Lori discuss the challenges of returns—for both customers and sellers—as well as strategies for improving the process.
How to improve the returns process for customers
As ecommerce has exploded, consumers have been “trained by the Amazons of the world” to expect box-free, label-free returns. Rather than asking customers to print labels and repackage products, Amena recommends providing convenient drop-off locations where shoppers can return unwanted items without going out of their way.
Regaining value from returned items
If it takes too long to restock and resell returned items, your business could be losing money.
Amena estimates that “for a 100-dollar item, it can cost nearly 30 dollars to do the processing. She continues, “Speed to stock is absolutely critical. The longer it takes a retailer to manage their returns, guess what? You are missing that peak season window for that item, which means you're going to need to mark that down.”
Embracing recommerce
Returns are closely intertwined with sustainability concerns—we’ve all heard the horror stories of brand-new products ending up in landfills. To reduce waste, Amena recommends embracing recommerce.
“A lot of brands and retailers are engaging in those strategies to refurbish [products], and [they] actually have trade-in programs so you can return an item and it goes on to its next home.”
Links
Transcript
Lori Boyer 00:00
Welcome everybody back to Unboxing Logistics. So excited to have you here today. I am really excited. This time of year, we all know, returns is the name of the game. We have just had peak season. It's wrapped up hopefully well for all of you. And so I thought, what a great time for us to be talking returns.
And so I brought in one of the greatest experts on this topic, Amena Ali from Optoro. Amena, can you introduce yourself, kind of tell our community a little bit about you?
Amena Ali 00:35
Hi, Lori. Thank you so much for having me on, and happy New Year to you. I'm the CEO of Optoro, and we live, sleep and breathe everything returns and reverse logistics.
So we're talking about retail returns, whether from online, made to third party locations. Made into omnichannel back in the store and how all that product gets ingested back into the supply chain and back out. How that impacts customers, shoppers out there who are returning things. Everything returns is what we do.
Lori Boyer 01:14
I love it. And it is such a fascinating kind of facet of our industry. It is, it can make or break a lot of companies. So I'm really excited for our community to be able to learn from you today, kind of hear about what trends we saw in 2024, what you're expecting in 2025. But before we do that, there's a couple of things that I've got going.
First I want to get to know you a little bit better. So Amena, are you an introvert or an extrovert?
Amena Ali 01:44
Ah, I think, you know, I'm somewhere clearly in the middle. I think there is a little bit of an introvert in me, but I love actually talking to people. I love especially talking to customers and partners.
So for me personally, if there's a problem to be solved as opposed to just small talk to be had, I'm really happy talking to people to understand sort of what are their pain points and how can we do things better? How can we make an impact? In fact, making an impact is one of our core cultural values.
So I would say I'm somewhere in the middle of being an introvert and extrovert.
Lori Boyer 02:25
I am totally, I think the same Amena. We are twins here. I think we're on the same level because I absolutely love to learn from people. I absolutely love to kind of understand real topics. But yeah, I get bored by the small talk.
You know, I go in to get my hair done or something and I'm like, I don't really want to just chit chat right now. So totally the same. We would get along so well. So one other question I had for you, and this is really just selfish on me because I've been toying with this question myself lately. Do you think it's more important to work on, like, promoting your strengths as a person or improving your weaknesses?
I just keep thinking about this question lately and I thought, I'm gonna be asking some of these experts. What do you do? Where, where is that balance?
Amena Ali 03:13
Yeah, I think that's a great point. And I don't know if it's so much promoting your strengths as much as acting on your strengths. Because if you act on your strengths the results are self evident.
And I think in terms of your weaknesses or your blind spots, it all starts with awareness to understand what do you need to be mindful of so that you can work to mitigate it. And that can be, you know, in whatever format it's in. Some people are, you know, like afraid to talk publicly or afraid to, you know hold court and, and engage in, in conversations that might take them to an uncomfortable place.
And I think that's an important thing to have self awareness of so that you can actually begin to work on it and say, okay, this may not be a comfortable conversation, but I need to have it.
Lori Boyer 04:07
I love that. So the awareness of your weaknesses. I am all too aware of many of my weaknesses. So yeah, sometimes I think, should I be acting on my strengths and focusing on that?
Or should I just be trying to improve all those weaknesses. So I, I love that insight of awareness. So, okay, one thing that I really like to do and is important for me is as we're talking here today, if we had people who had to jump off that, you know, what are the key points you would want people to come away remembering from our conversation today? Let's just start with those, get them out of the way so we make sure that everybody gets value today.
Amena Ali 04:42
Yeah, so I think the gist of the matter is returns are expensive and they're friction filled. And that is true across you know, a number of perspectives, certainly from the shopper's perspective, it's a chore. It's something they need to do. It's also something that shoppers are increasingly wary of in terms of, hey, is this return free or not free?
And more often than not, shoppers are actually judging whether they're going to shop with a given brand or retailer based on the policies. So I think it's a pain point for shoppers that needs to be addressed. It's absolutely a pain point for retailers and brands because it's expensive. It's an expensive from a number of perspectives.
First of all, the cost of actually putting that item or good in the reverse supply chain. That's hard. So how do you manage that expense? The cost of not getting full recovery from that item. Are you getting 100 percent of the value back or are you getting a fraction or God forbid, are you just like not managing it and you're resigning it to landfill?
So it's painful for shoppers, it's painful for retailers, and it's certainly bad from a circularity and sustainability standpoint.
Lori Boyer 05:57
Yeah.
Amena Ali 05:58
So I think the answer needs to be something that, you know, technology software that says, how do you attack all of these dimensions and not be forced to say, I have to do this one dimension, and that's going to exact a toll on the other dimension.
So I would contest that technology, if it's actually going to attack this problem, you know, needs to provide a win win win solution end to end from a returns and reverse logistics standpoint. And that's really what brands and retailers should ask themselves. Am I, you know, touching one part of the problem and pushing the problem somewhere else? Or am I attacking it systematically?
Lori Boyer 06:35
Okay, so super interesting. I really like that. So technology needs to address the customer pain, the retailer pain, and kind of that sustainability circularity sort of general global pain that we experience with returns. Yeah, I know that returns have gone up exponentially over the last few years. You know, as we've become more and more comfortable with online shopping, as ecommerce is exploding and continuing to do so returns have continued to grow. I guess, what trends have you kind of seen in terms of how that's impacting maybe the customer. Let's start by talking customers.
You mentioned them first. So customers, how, how is the returns process more of a pain, you know, more of a challenge for them than, say, even 10 years ago? 10 years ago was a long time. I feel like as we started, returns were kind of a way to help people feel comfortable with ecommerce. You know, all those free returns. Today they do feel comfortable, but returns are still kind of a challenge. So what kind of pain do you see customers experiencing with returns and how is it different from the past?
Amena Ali 07:45
Yeah, so I think the sheer volume of returns has gone up. If you think about how much shopping you're doing, chances are at any given time, it's on your to do list.
It's sitting on your kitchen counter or in the back of your car or what have you. So the sheer volume has gone up, and therefore the absolute magnitude of the friction or the pain from a shopper perspective has gone up. And that's because the volume of returns has gone up threefold, fourfold, fivefold, relative depending on if you're looking at the last three years, four years, five years. It's astronomic, right?
It's 750 billion dollars worth of a problem. That's 2023 data. 2024 data should be coming out pretty soon. I think, convenience and ease has become way more important than it used to be, and that's because everyone candidly has been trained by like what the Amazons of the world have, you know, taught us to do in terms of box free, label free return.
So I feel like that is, you know, that is sort of the the necessity in terms of what a brand or retailer needs to provide is make it easy and make it convenient for me. And I think that, you know, is there a cost of returning or not? That has become a really fraught issue for shoppers. Because as the cost to manage returns has gone up for brands and retailers, guess what?
They're like, hmm, let me make sure I, my margins and my my profitability is protected. Tell you what, I'm going to pass that cost right back to the shopper. The problem with that, if you take a one size fits all solution, is twofold. Oftentimes your biggest returners are also your best shoppers. Okay, not always, but oftentimes, more often than not, if you're actually really engaged with a brand or retailer, you're going to have a high velocity of I'm shopping, I'm returning, I'm shopping, I'm returning, this is just what I do, I'm busy, I have things to do.
I want to get my shopping in however I can. And that's part of my of my user journey or my, my flow as, as a shopper. So let's say you charge everybody for returns. What are you going to do? You're going to turn off the good people, the good shoppers, the profitable shoppers, as well as the unprofitable shoppers who perhaps are fraudulent, or perhaps they're wardrobing. They're doing things like that. So it doesn't make sense to do a one size fits all approach. The other challenge with that is that you're actually not deterring the fraudulent folks. So you need to take a finer lens to it. A more nuanced approach to figure out, wait a minute.
Who are the likely fraudulent folks? Who are the trustworthy shoppers? How do I actually make it easier for my best shoppers to continue to build trust in my brand and to have that continue now? While on the same token, you need to absolutely manage your cost of returns. And that is all the messy reality of reverse logistics.
You know, all of our logistics systems are designed to be working on, you know, outbound or forward logistics, like seamlessly. Stuff is good, it's packaged, it's per SLAs, it goes out. You know, life is a dream. What happens when all this stuff comes back? It needs to be received. It needs to be evaluated on is it new or not new?
You know, is it per the the SOP as to what's defined as new? One brand may have one definition of new. Another brand may have a completely different definition. And then is it worth fixing it? Is it worth addressing it? And how do I get maximum recovery out of it? That is a multi step inherently kind of manual and human filled process that needs assistance from software and automation to make it go faster, to make it be more efficient in doing the recovery and to increase the velocity. Because the longer it takes to process returns, it means that inventory is tied up and it can't go to the next shopper. And you've got working capital, you know, tied up in there.
So speed matters, and recovery matters. So I would say you got to look at both sort of the shopper facing side, and then the four wall side within, you know, an enterprise zone, DC or 3PL, as to how you drive both efficiency and recovery in managing returns.
Lori Boyer 12:15
That was so awesome, Amena, and I have like 57 follow up questions, so get ready.
So the, you said, that was like a mountain of valuable information there. And so I want to touch on it. First of all, so you mentioned customers. I totally get that. I am, I have seven kids and I pretty much do all of my school shopping, presents, Christmas online. It's just as a working professional, you know, how else can I get it done?
So, there are a lot of returns. I am kind of people's ideal customer, you know, I'm doing a lot of shopping online. I'm doing a lot of returning. What do you see? You mentioned that they want convenience and ease. What are the most convenient and easy ways? So if I have a retailer out there saying, okay, I've got a great shopper. I know that they're not one that I want to turn off. What is the most convenient and easy way? What are you seeing from consumers?
Amena Ali 13:08
Yep. Great question, Lori, and you would be a dream customer for so many brands and retailers, right? So number one, you know, you've got your weekend to do list. The last thing you want to do is box and label the returns to get them out of your house, right?
So box free, label free is, you know, the standard currency you need to offer.
Lori Boyer 13:29
Box free, label free. Everybody got that. Box free, label free.
Amena Ali 13:31
Box free, label free. Nobody needs to be sitting there, you know, do I have tape, do I have whatever, does my printer, whatever. That is just so.
Lori Boyer 13:40
Do I even have a printer these days? Yeah.
Amena Ali 13:42
Exactly. I mean, I think I have like three printers in my house and like 2.9 of them are not in operational order, you know? Yeah. They're like from the fax machine days, like they're there, but they're not really functioning.
Lori Boyer 13:53
Yeah, exactly.
Amena Ali 13:54
So you want to do box free, label free, and then you need to have drop off locations that are super convenient for, you know, for the shoppers.
So if you're out, you know, doing your errands or whatnot, it needs to be within like a couple of miles of where you are. You know, ain't nobody wants to wants to stand in line. Nobody wants to drive a long ways. Like, that really kind of kills the joy of shopping where you want it to be easy and frictionless.
And by the way, if you're taking it back to the store, let's say it's a combination of a store return, a third party drop off, that store return needs to be as seamless as you know, showing a QR code, ideally getting some insight. Because as a brand or retailer, I want I want that data on why are you returning it?
Is it something I need to pass on to my suppliers to actually increase my shopper delight to make sure that, you know, the product makes, meets the customer's needs. So you want to get that data and you want, you want that to be as easy as possible so that when you're in the store, returning doesn't require standing in line and lo and behold, you're like, okay, maybe I should buy this other product or maybe I should do the exchange. Which kind of brings me to another topic, which is that you want to make exchanges instant, and instant ship and instant refund in terms of how you offer it.
And that's one of the areas we've put a lot of energy in is to basically say, how can we do right by the shopper? So you want to do right by your best shoppers because perhaps it was the size, perhaps it was the color, it didn't work out for them. You not only want to do that instant exchange, you want instant shipment of that, because time matters.
You're trying to delight shoppers, and you don't want them to wait around until you send the first item back and then the second item is shipped. And what if that's out of stock? So we have an offering called Instant Exchange which has been really popular. Which is okay, if the size didn't fit, if this color didn't fit, if it's in stock, we will ship it out to you right away because we know you're a trusted shopper.
And I think trust is a really important aspect of that entire commerce journey. And that's what engenders loyalty, frankly.
Lori Boyer 16:11
I love that you bring that up because I had a personal experience where a company that I bought from online, I went to the physical store and they wouldn't let me return the item that I'd bought online.
And because that experience was just very clunky for me, it didn't engender loyalty. It didn't make me feel like, okay, this was too hard. I'm not going to buy from them online anymore. So I love that. Okay. How do you find, so you mentioned the not one size fits all. So we do have these great customers that we want their returns to be easy. You know, Amazon, for instance, knows I'm a great customer. When I run and return things, they are never a problem because I buy 500 that I don't return. You know, I'm not a scammer. How do you find which of those customers are that, you know, trusted person that you're wanting to give a great experience to?
Amena Ali 17:02
Right. So I would say enter data science, enter machine learning, enter AI to basically say, who's, who's a trustworthy shopper or not. Some retailers have loyalty programs where implicitly they invite their best customers to, to be a part of the club, if you will. That's kind of a natural demarcation point.
But if you don't have that, you have to have the, the data analytics and the data science to basically gauge you know, that level of trust to offer that. Let me just go back to the point you just made about the return. So it's also a truism that the face of retail has changed. Thank you, pandemic.
And a lot of retailers are actually kind of reexamining not only merchandising strategies, but actually what's a physical footprint, you know, stores are getting to be smaller. Labor is really hard to find in stores. You know, when was the last time you went in and you got the kind of assistance you needed to find a size or whatnot?
So labor is precious, and labor is really directed towards, you know, delighting shoppers in stores to drive as much commerce as possible. So now imagine what happens when the returns come back. So problem number one is that the online assortment generally is way bigger than what's, you know, in that store.
So chances are when you walked into that store, they said, and tell me this is true. Well, that's online and that's not in store. So you can't return it. So that's a horrible customer experience, right? So you're like, I just went through all of this pain to return it and you turn me away. That is, you know, like really bad.
Lori Boyer 18:44
And it was a big company, Amena, I was so surprised. I thought, oh, for sure. You know, if I went to some little small business, I could maybe see that, but I was shocked.
Amena Ali 18:52
Yep. So I would say the answer to that is twofold from a retailer perspective. Number one, you got to personalize the returns journey so that when you're actually given the options of where to return, you're actually nudged towards where you're going to have a satisfying experience.
Now, most of the time, I would say more than half of shoppers take items back to the stores. For some retailers, it's as high as like 70, 80, 90%. It's gonna happen. So we actually are implementing our smart dispositioning right in the store. I mean, the same kind of intelligence that we've honed for what happens in warehouses, which is to say, how do you get the item to its best home?
Why not bring that right to the cash register so that when Lori walks in with an item that was online, you're not turned away, but we've implemented, you know, products, software, technology that says, okay, sales associate, accept this item and instead of keeping it in the store where it will, like, go to die, basically, or be sold at a deep discount, which is why the retailer is turning you away put it over here to be sent to this particular distribution center or warehouse.
So the onus needs to be on the retailer to make it right, as opposed to the, you know, half of shoppers who are walking into a store to turn them away. That is really our Optoro store's offering, which can help you do that in a very seamless, integrated manner.
Lori Boyer 20:22
Okay, Amena, I'm curious about the fraud aspect because I do talk to people and they say, hey fraud is a big concern.
And, you know, and it's growing just as the returns themselves are growing, fraud challenges. You mentioned, you know, that one size fits all approach doesn't really deter fraud. So do you have suggestions for how they can deter fraud?
Amena Ali 20:47
Yes. And I think it's a multi pronged answer as opposed to a simple answer and the multi pronged answer kind of goes like this.
Number one as a retailer brand, you have to make a decision about when do you give a refund to a customer, right? And that is what matters the most to that shopper. When am I getting my refund? And that implicitly is why, by the way, more than half the people walk into a store if they can, because they know if they return the item, they get the refund right away.
And some brands were providing, you know, refund at drop off as opposed to at inspection. And so you need to take a look at who is trustworthy as a shopper. And at what point are you providing the refund? Because to me is kind of that's a privilege and not something that everyone should take for granted.
So implicitly when you're returning into a store, someone, someone can take a look and say, Oh, okay. You're returning a sweater. Does this look like a sweater? Does it look like it's in decent shape? And if you're actually dropping it off, I would submit that you have to connect the front end to the back end.
You actually have to connect that decision about when you're providing a refund with what is actually being received. You know, the proverbial box of rocks or, you know, some other kind of scenario like that. You need to actually have the data to say, Lori is a frequent shopper and returner, she is a trustworthy customer.
I'm actually not only gonna, you know, refund at drop off, but what if I actually refund at the first click when you actually go to do the return? Because I know you're a trustworthy shopper. That's where you need a lot of data to do that. And if and if you don't have that data and that data science and that, you know, instant ship and instant repurchase, then you have to say, okay, well, what's being received in the warehouse?
And then I got to wait and see what the operator in the warehouse says as to was the item what it was supposed to be. Was it clearly worn? Is it damaged? And that's then going to drive another set of decisions. So I would say you have to have an end to end view of the data from who's the shopper to what's being received.
And you need to have a lot of data science and machine learning to establish and define what trust is.
Lori Boyer 23:09
Yeah, I I absolutely agree with that because I feel like we hear a ton in this industry about data and AI and machine learning and, and people don't really know where and how to use it. And I think that in some cases, you know, we're not ready for it in certain areas, but in returns.
Absolutely, this is an area where there is a ton of data, a ton of information and where you should absolutely, if you do not have, I mean, to me, that's a big takeaway. If you do not have some sort of data you're really just kind of shooting yourself in the foot to start because that data is, is so critical in this case.
So Amena, I'm hearing a lot of people. debating. I feel like in a way 2024 was sort of a year of debating, should I, you know, charge for returns. We're seeing, we are seeing rises in people charging for returns. Are there any best practices or guidelines for maybe when you should charge for a return?
Amena Ali 24:09
Yeah, I think the answer has to be personalization and it can't be, it can't be everybody pays or potentially nobody pays, because I think it really depends on the value. You have to look at the lifetime value of a given shopper as you're making that decision. Because without a doubt, if you charge for returns, it will be a deterrent to your commerce, to your total revenue, to your total sales.
So before you take that step, you have to understand what problem am I trying to solve? Am I trying to reduce the cost of returns? Am I trying to drive my sales? Am I trying to do both? And the question is, how can you actually make returns a competitive advantage as opposed to this like necessary horrible evil that it can be if you don't manage it appropriately?
So I would say for some customers, you actually want to increase the level of friction. The ultimate is to say, I'm going to charge you for that return or I'm going to make it a final sale. I will not allow returns at all. And maybe for some customers, that's absolutely the right treatment. And maybe that's for like the 1 percent of customers who are driving, you know, the 100 billion dollars worth of fraud problems. But it's not for 99 percent of shoppers who are actually, you know, good customers and they're trying to do the right thing.
So I think you have to take a finer lens to it than, you know, everybody's bad or everybody's good. Cause the answer is yes.
Lori Boyer 25:43
Yes, exactly. And I love, you had such a nugget in there that there are, you can use returns to be a competitive advantage. Because for me and for all of us shoppers out there, you know, when your stuff comes and it arrives and it was good, you know, or it comes and it arrives and you need to return it.
It's, you don't think about it until there's a problem. When there's a problem is where the customer experience is different than at a different store. So when I had a really bad experience not being able to return that that turned me away from that store. But if I have a great experience, it's also something that stand out, stands out above and beyond.
Like, wow, that was way easier than other stores. And as you've pointed out, builds that customer loyalty. So I just, I wanted to make sure that was pointed out. I love that point about competitive advantage in returns. So you've mentioned we talked a lot about customers and their experience. What about the retailer themselves? What are some ways that they can make it less painful, less expensive, you know, less inefficient? What would be your top tips?
Amena Ali 26:52
Yeah, so, I mean, if you don't manage it retail returns are a real drain on the bottom line. Because for a 100 dollar item, it can cost nearly 30 dollars to actually do the processing and, you know, the transport, the markdown, all of those nasty realities. For for apparel and footwear categories like that, you can have as much as 90 percent of the goods go back to stock.
So speed to stock is absolutely critical, because the longer it takes a retailer to manage their returns, guess what? You are missing that peak season window for that item. Which means you're gonna need to mark that down. That's a really bad answer, right? You wanna and you you not only want to not mark it down.
You actually want to satisfy other customers. I'm returning that item because it's too big or too small for me. Somebody else is waiting for that item. I don't want to give an out of stock to someone else. So I would say in their would be within 24 hours of when a given item is returned to a warehouse, it is already listed for sale to the next shopper.
Like, that is what good looks like, and I would say evaluate your current systems to say, how long is it taking me to get items back in stock? Is it more like 30 days? Or is it more like 10 days? Is it more, you know, how long does it take end to end?
Lori Boyer 28:24
And you're saying 24 hours is the key. So KPI is out there, everybody. We all love the nerdy numbers. Speed to stock. Amena is saying 24 hours is our, is our goal. Okay.
Amena Ali 28:37
24 hours after when it's returned. So the first thing to measure is how long does it take from when the shopper initiates to when that item is received in a warehouse? That's the first thing to measure. And that can usually be 10 days, 12 days, totally lapsed time from when I said I'm returning it to when I go drop it off somewhere to when it's actually centralized back in a warehouse.
And then the second item is when it's received in that warehouse, how long does it take before it's listed for the next shopper? The best retailers, for them it's 24 hours because that space between, you know, literally that space between where it's received, where it's evaluated. So then you've got receiving and evaluation for whether it's new or not and when it's listed back.
So good means it's 24 days. And then the other item I would say is what percent of items are you getting maximum recovery on? And the faster you are at doing this flywheel for reverse logistics, the less of a markdown you are taking. So that is time back to stock and that's percent recovery.
So that then gets to, okay, let's talk about all those items that are not going back for stock. They're not new. How do you actually evaluate what percent are ended up in, in landfill and secondary channels? What's your percent recovery? And all of that means, are you getting that item to its next most profitable home if it's not brand new?
And that, that means you need technology like Optoro's to say, is it worth repairing this item? Well, how much of the value would I get out of it? Can I automatically add like recommerce channels so that this can go find a second home? The easier you make it to actually get recovery from an item, the more likely you are to get a higher percent recovery.
Lori Boyer 30:36
Is there a percent recovery, you know, KPI, best practice people should be shooting for?
Amena Ali 30:41
Well, one item is let's talk about the inverse. What's the amount that is sent to landfill? Because that landfill percent means I'm getting zero recovery out of it. So we have retailers who used to send, I don't know 10, 15, 20% to landfill. And now that number is down to like 1% or 2%. So we actually measure, we do an impact report every year where we measure what percent are recovered. And the good retailers are somewhere north of 95% of, of value recovered.
Lori Boyer 31:20
Oh, that's amazing. So, okay, we're getting, I have so much I could ask you, but we're getting towards the end of our time and I wanna make sure we hit, you mentioned landfills.
That sort of sustainability piece. I am seeing more and more as I'm talking to people out there concerns from their consumers about the sustainability. Returns is kind of getting a little bit of a black eye in the public in terms of how much we are sending beautiful brand new things into landfills and whatnot.
So what, what recommendations I guess, do you have for companies out there when it comes to sustainability and returns?
Amena Ali 31:57
Yeah. I, I love that question. I, I'm a firm believer that you can actually do well and do good at the same time. That if you have the right kind of technology, it not only will boost your recovery, but it'll keep stuff in the circular economy.
And I've seen so much data that says, you know, like 6 out of 10 shoppers care about sustainability. I think recommerce is one aspect of that in terms of the, you know, gently used or previously loved. And a lot of brands and retailers are engaging in those strategies to refurbish and actually have trade in programs so you can return an item and it goes on to to its next home. I think, so you got to make it easy to plug that stuff in because you think about what's involved. Oh, wow. So now my recommerce company needs data about what, what's the catalog number for the item? Do they need to take pictures? Do they need to list it? So the easier you can make it to again, transmit the data the easier it is to relist it for sale.
So I think you have to make it easy to get the item's disposition. That's the term of art. So we have smart dispositioning. To its next most profitable home, including recommerce, including donation and all of these other solutions so that it's not just wasted.
Lori Boyer 33:23
I love it because honestly, sometimes people think, oh, sustainability and trying to be conscious of what I'm doing is more expensive or, and honestly, it's not.
It's waste already. It's waste for your company. And so if you do it right, you can do it in a way where it's more profitable for you. It's not difficult for you and you're, you know, doing, doing well by the planet. So that is amazing. Okay. Any other things, tips you have for us before we go today?
Amena Ali 33:55
No, I'll just close with this one vignette, Lori, that, you know, a major national retailer had all of these baby goods coming back, right?
So, you have kids, you know how much gear is involved, especially when they're little. So, we're talking car seats and playpens and strollers and backpacks and baby bags and everything else you can imagine. And because they didn't have technology to systematically determine whether this was up to code and it could go back, like the effort wasn't there, and they were just chucking all this stuff.
And so we plugged in systematically a recommerce company that is now actually doing that. And it's a win, win, win because this retailer has managed to, they saved 2 million just in the first month of lighting up this recommerce company. Who then is doing the refurbishment and you have new parents who are buying, you know, goods at a discount that have been, you know, repaired and everybody wins.
Lori Boyer 34:55
I know. I love that. And that is exactly how it should be with returns. Everybody wins. The consumer, the company, you know, and even the planet. So thank you so much for being here. So many truth bombs dropped by you today. So many great nuggets for everyone. And I just wish you the best 2025 ever.
Amena Ali 35:15
Thank you so much, Lori. It's been a pleasure talking to you and I wish you all the best. Great.
Lori Boyer 35:21
One final thing, if anyone wants to connect with you.
Amena Ali 35:24
Yep. Optoro.com, O P T O R O. com. We've got a wealth of articles, blog pieces. And of course, reach out to us. Love to talk returns and reverse and how we might be able to help.
Lori Boyer 35:38
I love it. Okay. We'll see you all next time.
Amena Ali 35:41
Thanks, Lori.